Curse

Wrath of m0o · Nov 15, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Why are the guardian and vanquisher title owners angry again? I couldn't bother reading through all the posts. Because of money or faction they didn't recieve ? Or are they just bitter because the new players will get more rewards?

Look..

We dont want to go back and do every single mission on NM and HM AGAIN.
Are books retroactive before the update? Yes.
Are books after the update retroactive? No.

If i forgot a HM dundeon book, and did every single dungeon on HM...can i go and get those pages inserted into my HM book for a small fee? YES.

If i Forgot (didnt have book till update) a book and did every single mission on NM and HM can i go and get those pages inserted into my book? NO.

Can you now fathom why we might be a little perturbed that we now have to go get a book, and do everything we already did..all over again, like we have already done... many, many, many times before.

This has nothing to do with money.
Fact is..the people this bothers are title seekers. People who spend lots of time and money into titles. I just put 500k into the Economy last weekend buying ToT bags.
If we were in this for the money...the money would just go back into the economy to be wasted on our precious titles.
I would gladly pay per page to have them work like the retroactive books we already had before the update.
To say this retroactive book has a Negative Effect on the Economy is Asinine.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 15, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Hai I'm almost 4 maxed titles on all characters, want to chat?

Two scenarios:

New player without any effort finished the campaign, gets tons of faction/exp/gold.
Old players that did all of this 3-4 or more times (Factions - at least 6 times, including deleted characters) don't get a squat.

Fair fair fair.

So because we have been playing a long time, we are special and ANET should do something special for us. I bought the game with certain expectations and I have not been disappointed with what I have received.
Some people here seem to think that longevity deserves something, please tell National Grid I have been paying them for many, many years so my rates should be lower than someone who just started their service.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 15, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

So because we have been playing a long time, we are special and ANET should do something special for us.

Are you listening, or like the others have you ignored the rest of the thread?

We want EQUALITY, which means that ANet does something that benefits us as well and not just new players or those who were previously too lazy to go through all the content.

Quote:

Some people here seem to think that longevity deserves something, please tell National Grid I have been paying them for many, many years so my rates should be lower than someone who just started their service.

Loyalty DOES deserve something and with many companies they do reward it. Like some banks will give special savings and loan rates to people who have been with them for a number of years.

So maybe you should look for a new energy provider.

Inra · Nov 15, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

We want EQUALITY, which means that ANet does something that benefits us as well and not just new players or those who were previously too lazy to go through all the content.

Hmm... now i need to do those missions in NM (again) & HM (never bother with those) to get books filled and you need to do those missions - this sounds like equality to me. This seems to be fair for me. Rule is simple: wanna fill your books do missions (it doesn't matter if you are new or old player - ANET treats us equally).

Wrath of m0o · Nov 15, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

So because we have been playing a long time, we are special and ANET should do something special for us. I bought the game with certain expectations and I have not been disappointed with what I have received.
Some people here seem to think that longevity deserves something, please tell National Grid I have been paying them for many, many years so my rates should be lower than someone who just started their service.

We arent getting something cheaper than others, we are getting acknowledged for feats we have already accomplished.

The retroactive books should work the same in all campaigns.

Apollo Smile · Nov 15, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

People aren't making a big stink over making it easier for newer players. People are making a big stink over the fact that ANet keeps screwing over veteran players that have been supporting the game for years. There is a difference between the two, and anyone who has taken the time to read this thread can see that. Let's just hope that GW2 at least doesn't follow the same philosophies of ignoring veteran players or else everyone who played GW and will be moving to GW2 are going to get screwed.

How pray tell were we screwed over? Last I looked we can access hard mode and vanquish.

Abedeus · Nov 15, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

So because we have been playing a long time, we are special and ANET should do something special for us. I bought the game with certain expectations and I have not been disappointed with what I have received.

I didn't say anything about being special, Anet doing anything special for us OR that I have been playing for a long time (even though this month I've been already playing 3 whole years ;d). It's just that people doing thing for the first and every next time are getting MORE than we, even if we did it 7-8 times.

It's like working in a job for 3 years, getting a $800 a month and $100 for holidays, but a new guy comes in, gets $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. Wouldn't you be pissed off?

Apollo Smile · Nov 15, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I didn't say anything about being special, Anet doing anything special for us OR that I have been playing for a long time (even though this month I've been already playing 3 whole years ;d). It's just that people doing thing for the first and every next time are getting MORE than we, even if we did it 7-8 times.

It's like working in a job for 3 years, getting a $800 a month and $100 for holidays, but a new guy comes in, gets $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. Wouldn't you be pissed off?

Thats my whole point. How are they getting more if we have access to it as well?

Fril Estelin · Nov 15, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

It's like working in a job for 3 years, getting a $800 a month and $100 for holidays, but a new guy comes in, gets $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. Wouldn't you be pissed off?

Just to complete your analogy: no I wouldn't be pissed off, because I would also be getting $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. And I would not ask my employer to pay me the difference for the months before, or even recognise that I am much more valued that the newcomer because of the years that I've spent in this company (after all I'm still their employee).

And to push your analogy one step ahead: shall I be privileged in the firm because I've been there longer, and so the new guy should get "something less" (which is equivalent to say that the veteran should get "more", whatever it is that you're requesting) simply because he's new? After all, maybe the new guy is much better than me (and bear in mind that being "veteran" is only a matter of having bought the game a long time ago, not even the number of hours will show how trully dedicated and loyal you are).

Shasgaliel · Nov 15, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

We want EQUALITY, which means that ANet does something that benefits us as well and not just new players or those who were previously too lazy to go through all the content.

So you get it. Everyone gets rewards now new and old. You mean that the new player will now get rewards by doing books and you not?

I think you want retrospective "equality" which is almost non existent anywhere. I do not think it is justified as well.

It is like claiming that when salaries increase all the people who get paid lower amounts before should get all the differences now not only the increase....

FengShuiDove · Nov 15, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

It's like working in a job for 3 years, getting a $800 a month and $100 for holidays, but a new guy comes in, gets $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. Wouldn't you be pissed off?

You haven't had many jobs have you? This kind of thing happens all the time. My last job I was hired on starting at $.50 better per hour than some people who had been there two years with raises. Markets are different and different things happen at different times.

Pitiful analogy.

Tyla · Nov 15, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Thats my whole point. How are they getting more if we have access to it as well?

People who have been playing a long time have already accomplished this, whereas people who are going to accomplish this soon will get more gain out of it without redos. At least I think that's his point.

In other words, we've already done this. People who haven't will eventually do this. We got nothing extra for our contribution, for us to get it, we need to do it again.

Abedeus · Nov 15, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

But when it happens to you, you ARE pissed off.

Quote:

It is like claiming that when salaries increase all the people who get paid lower amounts before should get all the differences now not only the increase....

Lex retro non agit, unless it benefits and doesn't harm any of the sides.

Quote:

Just to complete your analogy: no I wouldn't be pissed off, because I would also be getting $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. And I would not ask my employer to pay me the difference for the months before, or even recognise that I am much more valued that the newcomer because of the years that I've spent in this company (after all I'm still their employee).

But you aren't getting those $900 for holidays. He is, you are not. And who cares you have done more, you know more and you ARE better than he is. You also have more experience and it's more sure you will work longer than a person that has been in the firm for a month or two.

Quote:

(and bear in mind that being "veteran" is only a matter of having bought the game a long time ago, not even the number of hours will show how trully dedicated and loyal you are)

Then what is? Amount of $ spent in online shop?

Okay, other analogy.

You made a complete study about something, not going to give examples. You get $400 for it.

And you made it in 4 copies, each with your own hands (requirement). And few new people come, give study results about the same thing, in some cases less (Masters < non-Masters analogy for missions). And every one of them got $800.

Ha-ha.

Quote:

Thats my whole point. How are they getting more if we have access to it as well?

Try doing something 9 times if it takes at least 10 hours to finish. Good luck.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 15, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inra

Hmm... now i need to do those missions in NM (again) & HM (never bother with those) to get books filled and you need to do those missions - this sounds like equality to me. This seems to be fair for me. Rule is simple: wanna fill your books do missions (it doesn't matter if you are new or old player - ANET treats us equally).

OMG this is so simple - why don't you get it?

For people WHO HAVENT ALREADY PLAYED ALL THE CONTENT this update gives them lots of stuff for just playing through as they would do anyway. For people WHO HAVE ALREADY PLAYED ALL THE CONTENT SEVERAL TIMES they're unlikely to want to do it again just to get a book filled.

Got it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

So you get it. Everyone gets rewards now new and old. You mean that the new player will now get rewards by doing books and you not?

No, I mean that this update is designed for new/lazy players. They have to complete the campaigns anyway if they buy them, so if they do they get free stuff as well. But this doesn't benefit us because we've played them to death. What I'm saying is why doesn't ANet give something that benefits us without having to repeat what we've already done?

Fril Estelin · Nov 15, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

But you aren't getting those $900 for holidays. He is, you are not.

So what is it that newcomers to GW are NOW getting that veterans can't have?

Quote:

And who cares you have done more, you know more and you ARE better than he is. You also have more experience and it's more sure you will work longer than a person that has been in the firm for a month or two.

You may know more, but maybe your employer knows better. Experience is important, but it's not counted in years. And it surely not means that you'll work longer, on the other hand you don't have to prove anything and may leave for better shores (while the new guy has to prove himself, or he'll be fired).

(FYI I'm not exploring the analogy for the sake of making fun of this discussion, I actually checked that everything I said was analog to the current situation in GW1...)

Quote:

Then what is? Amount of $ spent in online shop?

What about a combination of those, plus a vast quantity of facets of how you behave in-game and on fansites? Of course it's also a feeling and we can fight till death trying to prove we're more loyal than the other...

Quote:

And you made it in 4 copies, each with your own hands (requirement). And few new people come, give study results about the same thing, in some cases less (Masters < non-Masters analogy for missions). And every one of them got $800.

Ha-ha.

Your analogy is wrong, here's the correct one: you got $400 for your copy before, at a time when the other guys wouldn't get anything because they didn't do the job; now you and these guys are doing the job and getting $800 for it. (your mistake was to compare the same copy you'd give before and after, judging it by your own standards/amoung of work, but its value is dependent on time). How's that unfair?

(The "Ha-ha" is really childish...)

Quote:

Try doing something 9 times if it takes at least 10 hours to finish. Good luck.

No one forced you to do protectors or guardians, and you should have had fun doing it, or you're not "playing a game". It's the same now, no one forces you to do books. Yet you want your past actions to be rewarded by current standards (many people have explained why it's wrong here, for example: what about asking rewards for in-game actions that would have been credited later during a week-end special event?)

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

For people WHO HAVENT ALREADY PLAYED ALL THE CONTENT this update gives them lots of stuff for just playing through as they would do anyway. For people WHO HAVE ALREADY PLAYED ALL THE CONTENT SEVERAL TIMES they're unlikely to want to do it again just to get a book filled.

Firstly I don't see how you can speak for "veterans" (how much should you have played to be a so-called "veteran"? 10,000h over 20months? 1,000h over 36months?). Secondly, it's not Anet's fault that you don't want to do it and yet ask for the same reward. As I said before, I'd agree to simply ask for a filled book for each title (protector, guardian). But getting so vocal about it (in particular treating people "idiot") is just plain wrong.

Quote:

No, I mean that this update is designed for new/lazy players.

And to send you back your false over-generalisation: everyone that takes your side is a stupid/arrogant player. (hint, hint: this is not what I think, but I want to show you what you're doing, i.e. over-generalising; GW players are not "veteran" OR "new", and new is surely not equivalent to lazy...)

Quote:

They have to complete the campaigns anyway if they buy them, so if they do they get free stuff as well. But this doesn't benefit us because we've played them to death. What I'm saying is why doesn't ANet give something that benefits us without having to repeat what we've already done?

Because this is EQUALITY. Do the same thing as they do now and you'll get the same reward. EQUALITY is not "take something from the past, anything, and then balance it with something from now".

Inra · Nov 15, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

But you aren't getting those $900 for holidays. He is, you are not. And who cares you have done more, you know more and you ARE better than he is. You also have more experience and it's more sure you will work longer than a person that has been in the firm for a month or two.

Assume title $900 and rewards from book $900.

You've already got $900 and now you will get only $900. I don't so now i'll get $900 + $900 = $1800. Yet still we get same amout of cash (tho i don't plan to do missions HM nor redo missions NM so it seems no cash for me, but that's mine choice). So ANET seems to be fair in this case.

Apollo Smile · Nov 15, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

So, by the logic of some of the people in this thread; everyone who didn't grow up with computers deserve to be compensated, since life is so much easier for our generation. Oh wait, thats not how life RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing works...

Tyla · Nov 15, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

So, by the logic of some of the people in this thread; everyone who didn't grow up with computers deserve to be compensated, since life is so much easier for our generation. Oh wait, thats not how life RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing works...

Computers aren't accomplishments, really though. You buy a computer, you get a feature that improves ones lifestyle and efficiency in some things, for example communication. Let's just say they are a trophy for ones work, much like every other thing you earn. Now, removing computers from the equation it's basically an evolution of technology which allows the future to become more efficient when it's been brought out. This is new, the entire reward is new aswell as that, but looking at the titles, the text part is old and the bigger reward is new.

New things with additional benefits at the same time is one thing.

Old things with additional benefits applied later on without retroactivity is another.

Apollo Smile · Nov 15, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

But they aren't technically "new things" they are evolutions of previous technology.

Tyla · Nov 15, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Then if they aren't new things, they mustn't have grew up with them, no?